Global Grind (globalgrind.com) is no longer pursuing the task of introducing Flash/Ajax start pages to the masses.
Now it seems to be combining recommended and popular items with selected newsfeeds.
A lot of startups start one place and end up in radically different ones so abandoning their initial position as stated to the press at launch is not inherently good or bad though it does suggest it wasn’t working.
This version is a bit more understandable at first glance than GG 1.0 but I wonder if active members got a warning that they were going to lose their start pages. I’m registered but did not receive any kind of notification so I don’t know what’s up with that. Maybe there weren’t enough to be concerned.
Update:
I should note that there is a Digg-like angle involved and some related design but I think it’s a mistake to label Global Grind a Digg clone though perhaps the hope is that the news ranking aspect will become more important as members get involved.
Angela Benton at Black Web 2.0 has an interesting take though I find it questionable:
"While I wasn’t opposed to the startpage concept, in fact Black Web 2.0 readers are probably in the minority when it comes to familiarity with Web 2.0 concepts, I think the user experienced may have been to advanced for the majority of GlobalGrind users. Switching to a more familiar design model could serve as an important lesson learned. What works in mainstream web use is in fact perhaps 1 to 2 years away if not more within our minority demographic. What do you think about GlobalGrind’s redesign? Is it simpler to use? Is the Digg concept still to foreign for the demo?"
I’m not really buying the "dumb it down" argument. As I’ve argued previously, Global Grind did not actually present a more newbie friendly version of Netvibes, they just said they were and their claims were taken at face value. Their user interface was actually less newbie friendly and focusing on hip hop content couldn’t change that.
Blaming the audience on this one suggests more of a failure of analysis than a pragmatic response to the limitations of that audience.
Related ProHipHop Coverage:
Rumor: Global Grind’s Heading for the Dead Pool?
Global Grind’s Navarrow Wright & Failures in Web 2.0 Communication
Looking Back at 360HipHop, Considering Global Grind
Any idea why, GG seems to discriminate against International Users, with its only location field being a zip-code?
Are non-yanks Not considered hip-Hop fans by them?
I agree… the argument that “in fact Black Web 2.0 readers are probably in the minority when it comes to familiarity with Web 2.0 concepts” is false. I think its the complete opposite. Look how we have embraced YouTube, filesharing, MySpace, and the many newer more “hipper” web 2.0 type of sites… In fact, we tend to embrace new technology and things that have that “cool factor” much more rapidly in my opinion. Maybe the previous incarnation of GG just wasnt that appealing. Maybe it will be now. But its move from one crowded field to another. Good luck.
“In fact, we tend to embrace new technology and things that have that “cool factor” much more rapidly in my opinion.”
That’s what I’ve argued a tiny bit as shown by use of mobile devices since I was in high school in the 70s.
I’d like to do more work on that or find somebody else who has. Need to do a scholarly search on that one.
“Any idea why, GG seems to discriminate against International Users, with its only location field being a zip-code?”
On the one hand, that looks like the kind of detail, among others, that they missed.
On the other, a lot of U.S. based companies, particularly social networks, have a history of not being interested in “foreigners”.
Given that growth has to keep occurring for any of these companies, one would think they could do the math and realize that getting a global audience makes you Global!
Who knows what they’re thinking?
You claim that GG “dumbed down” to meet your level. Who said that and who would GG have to dumb down to, please enlighten me. Get your facts straight and stop trying to lynch a brother for changing his approach after receiving feedback from his users. Did you know that last Fri. GG was the 6th most searched term on Goggle? If you were actually a true journalist, you would have researched GG and read about that in Goggle’s trend search listing for that day. (Actually, I bet you already knew that but left it out to discredit the site’s vitality)
Your original review focused on comparing 360 to GG. 360 was ahead of its time and GG is ahead of its time. Technology is fluid. Well equipped sites are able to go with the flow. GG listens to its users and makes the necessary changes to give the people what they are demanding. As you know, creating programs takes time and cannot be done overnite. You sarcastic “perhaps there weren’t enough users to be concerned” about the changes is way off mark. It’s a startup. No, their numbers don’t compare to a Facebook or MySpace but they had enough to be concerned about disappointing. But guess what Clyde, GG took a chance and redid their site. Not because it wasn’t working but because the creators weren’t satisfied. They could have dumbed down for you and kept what they had before but they took it up a notch. Unlike you Clyde, GG is not writing reviews; they are the topic of the review. GG is making happen. What are you doing?
Peace
“You claim that GG “dumbed down” to meet your level.”
No, I’m characterizing Angela Benton’s argument as an avocation of “dumbing down”. She doesn’t use those words, I do.
I don’t use them to characterize Global Grind but, instead, to characterize her argument, an interpretation with which she may well disagree.
GG would have been searched a lot because I’ve heard Russell Simmmons mentioned it on tv. It’s not the first short term surge they’ve had. Wait and see is the smart approach to such a phenomenon as a traffic surge.
I basically say that restarting is normal and I do get sarcastic from time to time. I’m a blogger, not a journalist, learn the difference.
Almost everything you say about my statements are off the mark.
Truly sad and, if you’re connected with Global Grind, that says a lot about the kind of thinking that’s been undermining the site.
I learned last night that you are a blogger and not a journalist. I know the difference which was why I was confused initially by the elementary approach of your “review”, considering you do have a Ph.D.
What I find hilarious is that you immediately cover your butt and state “…don’t use them to characterize Global Grind but, instead, to characterize her argument, an interpretation with which she may well disagree” So, GG has not “dumbed down”? Perhaps if you wrote w/clarity there would have been no confusion and I would have had a true understanding of what you were trying to say.
Obviously, you’re one of those passive aggressive brothas who’s bitter because he hasn’t reached his full potential. Like I said before, you don’t have what it takes to actually be the change, all you can do is comment on it. Basically you sit around all day and hate on people.
Quick question, when your blog first came on the scene, I assume it was in the top ten? Which of course would have been attributed to a traffic surge.
Common sense–all startups take awhile to gain traffic. I heard about GG from TechCrunch and some associates. The combination of GG being on TV(it’s called advertising/marketing–don’t you wish you had some connections(real connections) and the reformatting of the site, put GG at number 6.
Russell is cool and all but just because he says check something out doesn’t mean I will. The fact that you give Simmons that much power implies that the hip-hop community is made up of puppets and can easily be spoon fed. If you knew anything about hip-hop, you would know that is impossible. Hip hop is an untamed beast that lets loose when and where it wants. Russell may be the “Godfather” of hip hop but not even he can control it.
And you call yourself pro-hip hop. Now, that’s sad, my “brotha”.
Since you can’t accurately read and interpret what’s in front of you, I have no further comments.
But feel free to say whatever you need to say for whatever reason it is that you’re saying it.
Wow, this is getting out of hand!
One point:
“A lot of startups start one place and end up in radically different ones…it does suggest it wasn’t working.”
The ability of the team to make a switch to find market fit suggests that the business IS working. It suggests that they have the money to make a change, and have founders that are committed to make it work.
The question that needs to be asked is does the youth/urban/hip-hop demo actually want to be targeted with their own product, or do they want to use a mass audience product like Netvibes or Digg?
My hope is yes, because I personally would like a place like that.
“The ability of the team to make a switch to find market fit suggests that the business IS working. It suggests that they have the money to make a change, and have founders that are committed to make it work.”
It does suggest they have the resources and openness to pursue business success. It doesn’t mean that the business is working in the way I would use that term but your point is well taken.
Given that they’re working with Accel and given that this is what tech companies and web 2.0 companies across the board have been doing, this is normal business in that milieu. Nothing is original in the reboot tactic itself.
So the way I see things is that it’s not working until they are on a clear path to profitability. A first step is getting people to use it on a regular basis but we’ve seen companies get lots of users and then go out of business left and right so there’s a ways to go.
Since the majority of companies that take venture capital fail, the statistical odds were already against them.
So we’ll see, eh?
the comment on “January 16, 2008 at 04:29 PM” is mine, but my name didn’t show up. Hmph.
Just to clarify, quickly – the product working and the business working are two separate things. That’s what i was trying to say.
And yup, most businesses fail. However, most businesses, online or off don’t turn a profit in their first year, or even their first three years. So, waiting until there’s profit to judge success is kind of boring.
The only thing that can be judged now is if they are targeting a market that’s worth sinking all this time and money into, do they have a good team, and do they have enough money to stick with it long enough to create a great product.
- Hashim Warren
Co-signing WTF? Not up on Web 2.0? Everybody black that I know as all over BlackPlanet.com 10 years ago. And I dare somebody to tell me that BlackPlanet wasn’t doing then what the “Web 2.0″ MySpace is doing now.
I think my biggest beef with GG is that I’m entirely confused about its point. First it was a start page. Now it’s a Digg-ish site. That wouldn’t be such a bad thing if it wasn’t so CRAPPY. After all, what is Digg but Slashdot in better clothes and a cuter voting system?
That’s where GG stumbles IMO. If you’re going to jack an idea, you need to do something different and compelling. And letting folks posting photos of themselves rocking chapped lips and baseball caps ain’t it.
Thanks for dropping in, Ms. Brown!
Hashim, is a product really different from the business or is it the first manifestation of the business in the world and therefore inseparable?
“The only thing that can be judged now is if they are targeting a market that’s worth sinking all this time and money into, do they have a good team, and do they have enough money to stick with it long enough to create a great product.”
I’m sure they’d like the critics to think that way but I’d love to hear the VC’s response to that.
Unless Global Grind has managed something unique with the funding, a la Calacanis and Mahalo, then those VC’s aren’t going to give them much time.
I don’t see anything in this project that would suggest any long term scenarios that don’t require a lot of people soon.
To be perfectly frank, I expect it to close without an announcement before the end of this year.
And I am certainly not alone in my skepticism:
http://tiffanybbrown.com/2008/01/15/globalgrindcom-a-failure-about-to-happen/
Peace
“The question that needs to be asked is does the youth/urban/hip-hop demo actually want to be targeted with their own product, or do they want to use a mass audience product like Netvibes or Digg?”
I’m betting neither in this case.
Clyde,
It is so easy to say: “I can’t talk to you, you don’t see where I’m coming from.” I know where you’re coming from—you’re coming from a place of hate. I don’t know what Russell has done to you but you are hot! Don’t hate on the Godfather, respect him.
Now to the real, the VC’s. Do you truly know who has invested? You state yourself that ACCEL is working w/GG, obviously you know who there are and that they would not invest in something they did not believe in: “The only thing that can be judged now is if they are targeting a market that’s worth sinking all this time and money into, do they have a good team, and do they have enough money to stick with it long enough to create a great product. I’m sure they’d like the critics to think that way but I’d love to hear the VC’s response to that.”
What sense does that make? Are you implying that ACCEL, one of the top three VC firms in the nation doesn’t know or respect who they are investing in? Black people aren’t a worthy investment? Who’s dumbing down now? For someone who calls himself ProHipHop you sure do come off as disliking hiphop and the people who are a part of that culture.
I love the fact that you believe GG is going to fail when its main investor is the main investor in Facebook. And we see how Facebook is doing, poor GG.
Also, for someone who doesn’t like the site you sure were in it awhile exploring because I have yet to see the images you are talking about.
Moreover, I love your “jacking” idea. What is your blog exactly? Oh,that’s right, you thought of this first. You are the original, the Godfather of blogs. You go boy!
I’ve banned Testbet due to my own anger management issues.
Clyde, I respect everything you wrote here and I agree with some of it. I just think the problems for Global Grind are different than what most people are saying.
Bad design or being a “me too” product has not doomed any businesses on the web. I think analysis in that direction is flawed, word to Markus Frind.
Facebook turns 4 next month and started as a MySpace clone with less features, like the ability to customize your profile. And isn’t MySpace an ugly clone of Friendster?
Pardon all the long comments! I don’t blog anymore, so I have no where to get this all out.
-Hashim Warren
Hashim, you’re always welcome to dig in and share your thoughts on this stuff.
I know I’ve given you an unduly harsh time in the past and I appreciate your willingness to continue the dialogue.
The argument that VCs only invest in companies that do well is a myth. VCs throw their money around in many startups and only a small fraction of them actually turn a profit for them. The rest die off eventually. If I were a VC I would put some money down behind a Simmons product simply because its a Simmons product. However, after seeing the current product, and the way they’ve been handling users, I doubt I would put more money into it. Clyde I too agree that the site won’t see the end of 2008 (they’ve been burning a lot of time already, almost 2 years according to Russell), unless they actually get serious over there at GG. I talked about this topic over on my blog, but honestly, my only issue is I expected more from Russell Simmons. If this were anyone else, I would say, okay, good try keep up the good work—because really, raising that much money so early is an awesome feat. But from the mogul that Simmons is, I expected him to come harder, and faster.
From following Simmons on a reasonably regular basis over the last few years I didn’t expect what you expected Liz.
He hasn’t done very well with his media initiatives post Def Jam and Phat Farm.
I know some people think I give him too hard a time but he’s building quite a track record of failure. I think it speaks to how strong his brand is that people don’t even seem to notice or care when they do notice.
Nice work, I’ll do a round up for a separate post but it’s nice to be finding some thoughtful voices with which I was unfamiliar:
http://www.lizburr.com/2008/01/the-past-few-days-my.php
Some great discussion going on here, mad at myself that I came in on it so late! Anyway i think it is awesome to see so many opinions on GG and the larger web 2.0 scheme of things. Just to clarify I never intended on communicating that GG was dumbed down. I am a firm believer that my people don’t need anything dumb-down. i was speaking more from what I have seen personally in the use of RSS feeds within our demographic. i use them and love them, most people I know also use them but random people not in web or technology don’t. Unfortunately RSS Feeds were a large part of the GG model. Again great discussion! Markus and I did a podcast with Navarrow and hope to have it up by early next week at the latest. In the podcast he talks a lot about the topics raised in this discussion.
Angela, thanks so much for dropping in.
“I am a firm believer that my people don’t need anything dumb-down.”
I’m really glad to hear you say that because it actually depressed me a little bit when I read it and thought you were making a more negative observation about black folks in particular.
My understanding is that what you’re describing about RSS feeds is the deal across the board with most folks. It’s not a topic of casual conversation!
So I see where you’re coming from now.
I look forward to checking out the podcast. I don’t actually like listening to interviews as much as reading them but I’m curious about what he’d say at this point.
And it’s only fair I listen given the amount of critical energy I’ve sent Global Grind’s way.
Thanks again.
Not a problem Clyde and definitely my pleasure! Markus and I actually did an OPML Analyzer on Black web that charts the top RSS Feeds. unfortunately not a popular as we thought it would be. A portion of my beliefs are drawn from that experience. It an be found here:
http://www.blackweb20.com/category/rssopml/
You are totally right about RSS (and OPML) not being topics of conversations just yet. Though I do believe Digg was so successful when it launched because it mainly targeted users in the tech arena and then was later adopted widely by the masses. When dealing with technologies that aren’t known or used commonly one will always run into the problem of adoption. Can’t wait to hear your thoughts (and others) on the GG podcast!
Wow, you totally outgeeked me with the OPML Analyzer!
If you think about it, let me know about the podcast when you get it up. I’m sure I’ll see it sooner or later but I’d rather know right away.
will do
For those who are interested The Black Web 2.0 Show podcast with Navarrow Wright of GG is posted here:
http://www.blackweb20.com/2008/01/30/interview-with-navarrow-wright-ceo-of-global-grind/
Thanks, I’m looking forward to checking that out and I’ll definitely post about it in some form.